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Venerable Ajahn Pasanno -
Saving Forests So There Can Be Forest Monks
Ajahn
Pasanno is the Abbot of Wat Pah Nanachat, the monastery for Western
monks set up by Ajahn Chah in Thailand. He recently spent a year on
retreat in the forest at Chithurst Monastery. It was there that he was
interviewed by Nick Scott.
Nick: Ajahn, you have been a forest monk in Thailand for over twenty
years now. In that time what have you seen happening to the forests?
Ajahn Pasanno: Basically, I've told Thai people that there just isn't
going to be any more forest in Thailand if they don't act soon, the
devastation is so complete. About fifty years ago around 70% of the
country used to be covered in forest and now the government estimate it
to be 20%; in reality it's more like 5% or 8%.
The big logging companies are partially responsible, but that's actually
a small part of it. Logging is banned nowadays. And even when they used
to come in, they only wanted the big trees and then they were out. What
happened was that they opened up areas of forest, and after they left,
people came in. Round where we are they cut the smaller timber for
furniture - you can get that out without being seen - and a lot goes as
charcoal. The government allows people to sell two sacks of charcoal, so
everyone has two sacks at the front of their house for sale.
Nick: What about National Parks?
Ajahn Pasanno: The area of the country that has been made into National
Park is a much higher percentage than, say, America. But the trouble is
they're not protected. One of our monasteries is in a new National Park.
The director of the park has got a budget for just one civil servant to
act as his assistant - and one gun for his protection. Luckily, where
this branch monastery is, the director is a young guy, really honest and
dedicated. But many of the others are crooked. Like the park at one of
our other branch monasteries - the monastery protects not only its own
area but the whole forest around it. But in order for the director of
the park to sign the piece of paper which would allow that project to be
submitted to the forestry department, it cost the monastery five hundred
pounds - which goes to him personally! You'd think he'd be keen to help.
So if he's expecting bribes from the monastery to protect his forest,
you can think what else he must doing, you can imagine the scams.
Nick: Ajahn, in that case you have got a small monastery with a large
amount of forest being protected. How does that work?
Ajahn Pasanno: The dynamic, particularly in the N.E. of Thailand, but
generally throughout the country, is that people respect monks -
especially the disciples of Ajahn Chah. And if you respect people, you
respect the place where they are at. So if the monks ask people not to
encroach on an area, they respect that - generally.
There are several hundred monasteries in Ajahn Chah's tradition and
they're all in forest - for some it's only a small area, but whatever,
the forest is respected by the people and left alone. At Wat Pah
Nanachat, before we finally got a wall around the monastery this last
year, the villagers used to keep an eye out for fires during the dry
season. Sometimes they would notice fires coming near the monastery.
Many trees had been planted, so if a fire swept through there, three,
four, five years of work would be wiped out. An alarm would be sent out,
the villagers would come and put it out, and I would only find out about
it later. They were really watching out for the monastery.
But you have to be careful in some places. When we first started one
monastery I told the monks not to bother the people who were coming to
poach logs from the forest; it was too dangerous to obstruct them. It
was being done by the local village headman, the representative of the
government. He was supposed to be looking after such things, but he was
cutting down the forest right round the spring which was our water
source. So I suggested to him that that area should be left undisturbed
for future generations. He was very polite, there was nothing aggressive
about him, "I can't do that", he said, "I've already paid the police,
I've already paid the forestry. I'll lose a lot of money."
Nick: Am I right in thinking that other abbots have got into real
problems with conservation projects?
Ajahn Pasanno: Oh sure. You have to be careful. There was a large area
of good forest along the Cambodian border and the military and local
merchants were trying to get it all. It was a big scam. They called it a
'reforestation project' - but what they were doing was cutting the
native trees to plant Eucalyptus, so they were making money both ways!
However, the abbot there was getting in the way, so he had grenades
thrown at his monastery, the roof of his hut was splattered with M16
shots. He was harassed a lot. He ended up being taken to court - that's
a big thing taking a monk to court in Thailand - and he finally ended up
disrobing. We started Nature Care when we set up a retreat place in Poo
Jom Gom - that's the monastery in the National Park. I specifically
chose that area because it is very rocky and the forest isn't very nice
- we didn't want the hassle.
Nick: You deliberately chose it because there wasn't good forest
left?
Ajahn Pasanno: Yes, it can be pretty distracting when you're practising,
and then there's the struggle with the system to try to save it. But
then when you see how things are - you feel that with a little bit of
input, it's not that difficult to protect what's left.
If the people in the area have a different way to make a living, then
they won't have to destroy the forest. They need to learn about the
forest. In order to have a sustainable livelihood they have to live
harmoniously with the environment. They also have to feel in control of
the situation, and not just pawns in someone else's game. One of the
things we focus on most is getting people involved from different
backgrounds. Previously there was no communication there. We're also
providing a bridge between the administration, which means well, and the
villagers. There can be so much corruption. For example, there was this
project making toilets. It was a good project. In the local village
there were 120 families and only 16 toilets.
Nick: How many televisions?
Ajahn Pasanno: About 40! So it was a great project, and the government
had the budget for it. It started off with a roof and bricks to build
the cubicle, a tank to hold waste and a toilet. But by the time it got
to the village, you've got the toilet bowl, eight bricks and a bag of
cement! So the villagers don't take the government very seriously.
Nick: So what kind of practical things have you been doing?
Ajahn Pasanno: Nature Care has been focusing on providing alternative
means of livelihood. You look at what they have already and consider how
to use it more effectively. For example, they grow a lot of bananas.
They take them to the market and they get beat every time by the
merchants. They don't have the confidence to bargain. And, of course, if
they can't sell them, they can't take them home again because they would
go bad. So we help them to change what they're doing. Rather than taking
the fresh bananas to the market, they make different products out of
them; dried bananas, sweets, roasted bananas. Things that they can keep
and sell for more. They can store them and wait till they get a good
price. So they get more from their crop. Also they grow cotton, but it's
always been sold raw. So we have given training in weaving and dyeing
using natural dyes. And there's a good market for that.
Nick: Are you doing anything more direct for the forest?
Ajahn Pasanno: One of the ways of protecting forest is to be involved in
education, so that people can see the benefits of the forest. This
involves stimulating interest, getting people keen to help. It's quite
obvious to the people that there is a big difference in their lives and
the quality of life around them, compared to 20, 30 years ago. In that
area, you could walk around and be walking in shade. But now a lot of it
has been cut for tapioca plantations. Most of it was just cut and burnt
- it wasn't logged at all - just to plant cash crops. But then the soils
degraded very quickly, the cash crops don't grow and they find that
their livelihoods are threatened. They used to rely on the forest.
Before cash crops they didn't actually use cash that much, because
everything they needed they got from the forest. They were very
self-sufficient.
Nick: Yes, but how do you go about improving things?
Ajahn Pasanno: Things like taking them out to see other projects - both
places where there are natural forests well preserved and they can see
the benefits for the people living nearby; and also seeing places that
have been destroyed and where they are starting to work replanting and
protecting, so that they can see what other people are doing. That's
very successful. It stimulates many ideas and it gets them thinking. It
inspires them to realise, "We can do that". Also working with children,
getting children involved is important. The children are at the heart of
the family structure in Thailand, very well loved. If you get the
children involved you tend to pull the parents in as well. So we've been
putting on plays and skits in schools, taking children out into the
forest, having fun, getting the children to love the forest.
In Thailand, the words that they use for forest are usually words that
imply dangerous, messy, tangled - language which has a negative
connotation. Also, somebody who goes out, clears the forest, makes
fields and builds houses for themselves is someone who used to be
praised. So that conditioning is there. The language and the way we talk
about something is very ingrained, so now you're having to work against
those values. It's going to take a while.
You have to see what's meaningful to them rather than have all these
plans. Their needs have to be understood. Also, as a monk, you have
contact with all levels of society, so that if the villagers have a need
or desire or hope, you have the opportunity to bring it to the attention
of other people from different strands of society who could give them a
hand. That does happen a lot - the monks creating a bridge between
people.
In Thailand, monks are regarded as leaders in society. What we're doing
isn't new. It is a function that monks have played traditionally and
will continue to do so. You notice at Ajahn Chah's funeral, when the
King and Queen came they bowed to the remains of Ajahn Chah - just the
same as ordinary people who came to pay their respects. You have got to
be able to preserve the purity of the life to deserve that - but when
you manage it, it's very powerful.
Monks are able to draw in different people and provide a harmonious
focal point for them to work together; they act as a catalyst. Say, like
myself for instance, it's not that I'm all that directly involved, I'm
more in the background providing advice, support and encouraging them.
Nick: Is anyone employed by Nature Care?
Ajahn Pasanno: Yes. They started with volunteers, people who were
interested. At first it was manageable for the volunteers, because in
the beginning they weren't doing all that much. But as they got involved
in more projects, got more interest from the villagers and made more
contacts, it needed more continuity, so that we have asked four of the
volunteers to work full time.
Nick: So how is it funded?
Ajahn Pasanno: Well, we've got very good at scrounging and everything is
done very cheaply - we've one motorcycle between everybody. So far we've
got by on donations from a few individuals and some small grants from
the Canadian and Belgian embassies. The salaries for the workers are
being paid at present with some money offered for my travel to come to
do this retreat in England.
Nick: Would you say, Ajahn, that by looking after the forest that you
are looking out for the Sangha and future monks?
Ajahn Pasanno: Yes, definitely. Because if we don't have forests we're
not forest monks! We're definitely protecting areas where monks can
practise within a forest setting, because you need to have a stable and
quiet environment for practice. If monasteries are set up in areas which
are being encroached upon by settlements, or in degraded areas where
there is no longer water or shelter, these are not conducive places to
practise in. So definitely, I'm looking out for myself. Our tradition
has always been connected to the forest. I can remember walking with
Ajahn Chah around the monasteries when he would point out different
trees and plants, telling us their uses for medicine or food or their
special characteristics. It was always interesting being with him. The
old forest monks really relied on the forest for everything.
Nick: Through my work in conservation, I've come to realise that it
is this kind of small scale effort that you are making which is
important, rather than trying to 'save the world'.
Ajahn Pasanno: Yes, an example needs to be set. The project demonstrates
what can be done with a small number of people, a small amount of
effort. But if it's done in the right way it can be effective. I try to
keep it very practical, keep it centered on a couple of issues, which
actually starts to expand into others, but it provides something for
others to consider. So we're planting seeds that will get more people
involved.
If you push people into a corner, they'll defend themselves. You have to
give people the space to back out. One of the problems oftentimes is the
kind of confrontation you get into between the people who are destroying
the forests, the vested interest, the civil service, people who want to
preserve it. If you're not including everybody in the process, the
forest just isn't worth it to protect. Everyone has to be included,
seeing that this is something which belongs to all of us, that we also
have a part to play in it.
In the Theravada tradition there's always been a very close relationship
between the society you live in and the monastic community. In Thailand,
as a monk, I don't have the amount of free time or space that you'd
expect. You're actually so much a part of the community that the
monastery is an open space. That's why I had to come to England to do
this one year retreat.
Nick Scott adds: I am very impressed with what Ajahn Pasanno has been
doing for the forests in Thailand. I know from having worked in nature
conservation that projects based on a wise perspective are rare. It is
also rare for us to have the opportunity to save forest in the third
world without much of our donation having to be spent on marketing and
administration. If you would like to contribute to Nature Care, you can
send a cheque, made out to:
English Sangha Trust (Nature Care), C/O Nick Scott to Chithurst
Monastery and we will forward it.
Forest Sangha newsletter: January 1996, Number 35
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